Inspired by Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning by Douglas Wilson, Marlin Detweiler started a Christian classical school and developed a history card program that chronologically integrates the best available books and Bible history. A small catalog followed which quickly blossomed into an incredible full-service curriculum company. Open a Veritas Press catalog and you will drool over all the beautiful books and high-quality teaching tools. Some are their own creation; others are hand-picked for inclusion in their catalog. We are very honored to have Marlin Detweiler of Veritas Press here with us at The Old Schoolhouse Magazine.

TOS: The classical approach to education is quite popular among homeschoolers these days, with several sources of guidance available. Doug Wilson, the Bluedorns, and Jessie Wise and Susan Wise Bauer have all written books on the subject, and there are other resources, such as Christine Miller's website and the Veritas Press catalog. What would you say are the fundamentals of this educational approach common to most proponents?

Detweiler: When an idea becomes extremely popular, as has been the case since 1993 (and even before then) for the resurgent idea of classical education, many proponents with varying ideas will get on board. That has certainly been true of classical education-so much so that there are even advocates of various educational philosophies that have claimed the term classical education who really shouldn't.

Some proponents of classical education will say that it is about the pedagogy (method of teaching). Others will emphasize the content. The term classical education should generally be understood to include aspects of both the content of the education and the pedagogy. They are, in many respects, inseparable.

The pedagogy, that is, the method used to educate, is the application of the liberal arts, more specifically the first three liberal arts, commonly called the trivium. The trivium includes the grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric aspects or phases to learning. The grammar aspect or stage is characterized by developing a mastery of factual information. In the education of children it is understood to coincide with grades kindergarten through 6th grade. Young students have great ability to memorize and an interest in doing so. We want to take advantage of this unique time in their lives. The dialectic (or logic) stage is generally understood to coincide with the junior high years, say 7th through 9th grades. By this time the student has accumulated a vast knowledge of factual information. He now has developed a desire to understand how this information is related-cause and effect, how and why. His natural curiosity has grown into an interest in arguing and analyzing. We then want to teach him how to argue well. The final stage is the rhetoric stage. During this period, which generally coincides with grades 10 through 12, the student is taught how to present things well-articulately and persuasively. Students have accumulated much data, they have learned how to reason through it, and now in the rhetoric stage they learn how to interact effectively with others.

The content of classical education will generally include the great works of writing from all of history, particularly those described as the great books. Books like the Iliad, The Odyssey, and The Aeneid would certainly be included. The study of Latin, logic, and rhetoric is an important part of the classical curriculum. Students are encouraged to learn from all of the past in order to avoid repeating mistakes made in the past and to build on the past. You've likely heard that if we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it.

TOS: Some people attack the idea of a classical Christian education, arguing that "classical Christian" is an oxymoron. How do you answer these critics?

Detweiler: Those describing classical Christian education as an oxymoron generally are objecting to some sort of blending of pagan thought with Christian thought. The age-old question What does Athens have to do with Jerusalem? comes from this way of thinking.

I believe over the course of time, hundreds and even thousands of years from now, people will regard the present time as one of the lowest points in the history of the church. Many of the beliefs and practices of Christians and Christian churches today would not have been tolerated at virtually any other period in history. Many of today's beliefs and practices were condemned by church councils.

St. Paul was certainly not uneducated regarding Greek and Roman philosophies. John Calvin was not nor was Jonathan Edwards. In fact, the greatness of these men and their contributions can be substantially credited to the fact that they had thoroughly learned such things. Certainly the work of dangerous philosophers espousing dangerous ideas must be understood in the light of Scripture. However, avoidance of such learning doesn't make for stronger Christians. We must realize that throughout all of history the idea of taking good things from unbelievers is a way to make the believing community stronger. The phrase pillaging the Egyptians is the idea that we take from the non-Christian community that which will benefit the Christian. Whether it is the Greek philosophers who have something to offer us in gaining an understanding of the world in which we live or the Amish and their strong sense of community, we must be willing to learn by filtering everything through a biblical grid or filter. Ideas learned from unbelievers, just like the ideas expressed in the sermon we heard last Sunday must always be evaluated in the light of God's Word.

TOS: Your catalog, Veritas Press, is beautiful and filled with tons of incredible resources. Among these, Phonics Museum and the Bible and history programs are your own creations. Are you planning to create any more materials?

Detweiler: Yes. High on our priority list is creating materials for teaching history, theology, and literature for dialectic and rhetoric (junior high and high school) years. Other curricular projects are in various early stages, too. Stay tuned!

TOS: Why are there no science materials for the early grades in your catalog?

Detweiler: Generally speaking, science is not a grammar school discipline for two reasons. First, serious science cannot be studied or learned until the student has a certain mastery of math and language. When you look at what science is being done in the grammar school years you find two general categories-memorization of lots of facts and information (i.e., types of living creatures, scientific method, bones of the body, etc.) and observation from going on nature walks or collecting and mounting leaves or insects. We believe that while the observation activities may be enjoyable they are not particularly meaningful educationally and, consequently, inefficient. The memorization of scientific facts is certainly important and timely for the grammar school student. The second reason we don't teach science in grammar school is that there is not enough time to teach the grammatical mastery of language and math, history and the Bible, and science. So, something has to give. Since meaningful science such as the use of calculus to understand motion in physics, for example, will come later, we think that mastery of the other disciplines is a higher priority in the early years. Classical educators of the past would agree.

TOS: What advice would you give to someone just starting out homeschooling classically?

Detweiler: Classical education does not come in a box. You cannot pull up to the Veritas Press drive-in window and order one "to go." We will do everything we can to search the world over for the best materials for our customer to provide their students the best education. But the materials alone are not enough.

Maybe the best summary is this. In grammar school seek to impart mastery of language, math, historic and biblical data, music and art. We teach Latin in order to assist in the mastery of the English language, not to learn a foreign language that is used nowhere except the Vatican and Ethiopia. In dialectic school seek to impart the ability to argue well and make fine distinctions. That is why mastery in application of formal and informal logic is so critical. Finally, in the rhetoric school, the discipline of rhetoric is critical. When our students know the facts, understand how they relate to each other and can communicate important ideas derived from them in a way that others willingly embrace, we have much for which to be thankful.

TOS: Veritas Press offers a free telephone curriculum counseling service. How do you counsel families who are teaching multiple grade levels?

Detweiler: Generally speaking, when a family has more than two grammar-school-aged children, we encourage them to teach the same material in the content-oriented disciplines such as history and Bible. Of course they should expect more from the older students. There are many other adjustments that are helpful, too. Each student is unique.

TOS: Many of us want our children to be classically educated at home but find that laundry, diapers, cooking, and dealing with disputes take so much of our day. Can you offer some words of encouragement?

Detweiler: Keep your priorities. A great 19th century Christian gentleman named R.L. Dabney wrote:

The education of children for God is the most important business done on earth. It is the one business for which the earth exists. To it all politics, all war, all literature, all money-making, ought to be subordinated; and every parent especially ought to feel, every hour of the day, that, next to making his own calling and election sure, this is the end for which he is kept alive by God this is his task on earth.

Mothers, don't grow weary in doing good. Fathers, don't miss the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to lead and educate your precious covenant gifts.

The father is the headmaster. He should sit down with mom to prioritize, encourage, hold accountable, and look for areas in which to participate directly as he is able. Mothers will naturally bear the load of teaching-a very godly calling. But, fathers should not be uninvolved.

TOS: Great words of wisdom for all of us! Thank you, Mr. Detweiler, for sharing your thoughts with The Old Schoolhouse Magazine. For our readers who wish to learn more, your website is at www.veritaspress.com or they may contact you at 1-800-922-5082.

Marlin Detweiler is the president of Veritas Press, a full-service curriculum provider for classical Christian educators. He and Laurie, his wife, live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, with their four extraordinary teenage sons, a border collie (the official breed of classical Christian educators), and a crazy cat. Encouragements, kudos, and warm fuzzy things may be addressed to him at info@veritaspress.com or 800-922-5082. Complaints, disagreements, and the like may be communicated to your spouse when he/she is asleep.

Heather Jackowitz is a staff writer and product reviewer for The Old Schoolhouse Magazine. She lives in El Dorado, California, with her husband, Michael, and their five children, ages 3 to 11. They enjoy sleeping whenever they can, reading good books, and going to Yosemite.